The Voice of the Wine Industry
What are the faults with the 100 point system?
In an effort to design a more accurate rating system, I am looking for all the broken parts. There are countless pages defining the points once they are tallied, but very little that explains the break down and why a section like sight or smell is allocated a certain number of points.
In my opinion a rating system is a rating system, from three stars to 1000 points its about measurability and if you are going to measure something, then why not be as accurate as possible.
The age old argument that quality to one person may not be quality to another is fine if the topic as rating preferences, but any wine judge or experienced taster will conclude that there are standards to which all wines are measured. They have just never been defined numerically, or have they and I just can't find it? That is my goal and i would love to hear any ones feedback on it.
In my opinion a rating system is a rating system, from three stars to 1000 points its about measurability and if you are going to measure something, then why not be as accurate as possible.
The age old argument that quality to one person may not be quality to another is fine if the topic as rating preferences, but any wine judge or experienced taster will conclude that there are standards to which all wines are measured. They have just never been defined numerically, or have they and I just can't find it? That is my goal and i would love to hear any ones feedback on it.
Tags: Ratings
Views: 8
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Arthur Przebinda on -
The problems lie not in points or their number.
The problem lies in the way the points are assigned. Almost nobody has clear criteria. Critics taste a wine and a number pops up in their head. That number, they say, is their impression of quality relative to other wines they have tasted.
In truth, that number is reflective of their enjoyment of the few sips they have had of the wine at a given moment in time. It does not address typicity (varietal or regional), longevity or food pairing vs social sipping.
Most people writing about and scoring wines do not have the cajones to take a stand about standards for fear of alienating 1) readers/people who hold the misconception that our neurophysiologies are too unique to appreciate the basic components of wine similarly and 2) producers who will not send them samples anymore if they don't get good scores.
You're welcome to see how I approach things on my web site. I outline my criteria, methodology and terminology in excruciating detail there.
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Permalink Reply by Dustin Jones on -
One of the biggest problems I've seen with points is that the scale is very limited. For example if you're drinking the best Kabinett Riesling ever produced it is still rated like 90 points and a Spatlese of lesser quality will get more points even though it isn't near the wine. If a wine is best in its class it should reason that it is a 100 point Kabinett. There is no way to fix this thing so I guess we just deal with it.
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Permalink Reply by tom merle on -
Very apt comparison. It also exists between varieties. The median score for Sauvignon Blancs is well below the median for Chardonnays, at least in WS. Arthur's thorough rating syste is very admirable (an amazing feat really), and he is to be commended for reinforcing the need for tasters to approach a wine on its own terms--within its own universe. But this approach tends to discount personal preferences based, say, on the Yech to Delicious! range that the WSJ reviewers use to cite one example.
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Permalink Reply by Arthur Przebinda on
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Tom
The "Yech to Delicious! range" is the only part of wine that is truly subjective. It is enjoyment-based, and enjoyment and preferences are personal.
Sensory assessment is open to training and development. That is proven by the implementation of organoleptic assessment in many food production, assessment and quality control fields.
My system goes hand-in-hand with my philosophy of encouraging people to understand what they smell and taste for its own merits, and beyond their own enjoyment.
That is the only way they can make a consistently reliable purchasing decision. If we have a common language and terminology, then they can read my description of a wine and have a sense of that wine and THEN decide if that wine is for them and if they agree with my assessment of it.
I vehemently reject the idea of having to 'calibrate' one's palate to that of an author (especially when that author rates based with the bias of personal preference and enjoyment - both of which are subject to contrast error).
This stunts a neophyte's development because it locks them into one track, one person's opinion of what is quality or enjoyable. When that opinion (presumed to be an expert opinion) is rooted in the author's preferences, this approach rids beginners of the ability to develop personal preferences and reduces their inclination to explore unfamiliar or less commonly known wines.
The collateral benefit of encouraging people to look at wine (and wine communication) from an organoleptic approach is that it gives them the tools and the confidence which open the doors for them to explore different things.
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Permalink Reply by Veronique on -
Frankly I had to laugh when WS was mentioned. Come on, a publication that rates wines the way they do should get no credit at all. Oh yeah, might have something to do with Yellow Tail getting 91Pts... or the fact that they award prizes to non existent restaurants' wine lists...
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Permalink Reply by tom merle on
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I was making a point about preferred varietals. The discrepancy occurs in virtually all publications. Cabernet is preferred over Merlot, Sangiovese, etc. The Spectator is just the most widely read mag. I know they are the favorite whipping boy among the cognoscenti, but Laube has a damn good palatte IMHO. And every once in awhile a mass produced wine stands out from the crowd. The Yellow Tail Reserve Shiraz (90 pts WS) got high marks from a number of reviewers and consumers, not just WS. Good for them.
Getting fooled on the bogus restaurant has no bearing on their wine assessments.
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Permalink Reply by aaron on -
Arthur, you've summed it up nicely. Wine is so-so subject. What is the difference between a 99 and a 100 point wine ? Well, said Robert Parker......the wine was a little short in the finish. What, 1% short? Please quantify OH great one...........come on!!!!
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Permalink Reply by Arthur Przebinda on
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Aaron
I'm not sure if I understand you or if you missed my assertion that personal preference is subjective whereas it's aromatic and flavor characteristics are inherent to the wine and thus not subjective. The only variant is the observer, their experience and assessment skills.
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Permalink Reply by Jay Drysdale on -
You have a good web-site and your methodology is better than some magazines i have worked with. I do like that you define each of the points. I like that you approached Aging and Food & Wine, but would they not be intention driven. A winemaker cannot control the quality level of grapes that arrive each year, but can dictate which direction the wine will take and whether it should be age worthy or not. Could that be why Chardonnays score better Sauv Blancs, because a percentage are able to age better than the majority of most Sauv Blancs? Most wine makers have a pretty good palate, but few that i know of, bridge the gap between food and wine, I think they get lucky if a wine is food friendly.
For sake of argument, we are discussing professional tasting that the majority of wine consumers do not partake in. This is not to say that once a system was designed for professionals that various educational steps couldn't be extracted to teach consumers how to define quality over preference?
Questions for everyone:
Should a wine be restricted points because the winemaker decided to make a complex, but drink now style of wine?
I hear you on writers not being objective enough in fear of being black listed and ultimately affecting their income. Could you imagine a score sheet that defines each point for winemakers to review? If you were a confident winemaker, would that only aid in making a better product?
What about points for making great wine with crappie grapes and penalties for making bland wine with amazing grapes?
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Permalink Reply by Arthur Przebinda on
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I think that characteristics such as food friendliness and ageability are under a good deal of winemaker’s control. So many wineries talk about having close oversight over the way their grapes are farmed, they talk of walking the vineyards, tasting and making decisions about picking. In fact, the premiere California negociants do make the calls on when their grapes are picked. So you will se harvest lasting 2-3 weeks in a single (relatively) small vineyard that they alls source from because each of them wants their grapes at different times. That being said, some years do make it difficult to achieve one's stylistic goals. The wines in those years are not as good as others. There's nothing wrong with stating that. I don't buy the "every year is a vintage year" line.
The disparity between how different varieties score is rooted in 1) attributes inherent to each variety, 2) the way sites or regions impact a variety and 3) vinification methods typically applied to specific varieties. A big 14.5% ABV, full of malo, oak and lots of sur lie chardonnay will beat out a sauvignon blanc unless the latter is made to mimic the former (See Rochioli sauv blancs) because critics taste very small portions of the bottle, they do it in large line ups (contrast error) and they never do it with food.
Re: losing points for drink-nows. I think that wines should be able to age. But not all varieties from all regions are able to do so. So let's say we have two equally complex cabernet sauvignons but one is ready to drink now and the other needs a decade in bottle. Well, firstly, I think it is impossible to have a drink-now cab that is equally complex to one that needs a decade in the cellar. What goes into making each type of cab results in two vastly different wines. For the sake of argument, let’s say you do have such two wines, the one that can age and evolve is a better quality product. Would you rate the drink-now the same as the one that can last? The latter offers more. I think there is no question, then, that it is superior.
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Permalink Reply by aaron on
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Arthur,
Fair call. Yeah, but it still comes down to personal tastes, and opinions. At this point in time the first Cabernet is approachable and drinkable, the second still tastes like crap. The every day guy that just bought those two wines off the shelf has cracked them......mmmmm....likes the first, but wont go near the 2nd (tight inky monster) ever again. That every day guy will perceive the first wine as that of quality ......no matter the price of each, but thats a different argument. However, in time, his or her tastes, and or knowledge of wine may change. Right?
Aaron.
Aaron
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Permalink Reply by Remy Charest on -
That's why contextual notes, providing background, comparative elements, etc., are a lot more helpful than numbers or a declination of flavors and aromas.
Point scales are simplistic and largely useless, as far as I'm concerned. Certainly as they are published in the larger magazines - i.e., without proper context.
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