Wine Communication Project

Comment

Comment by J. Boyce on January 25, 2009 at 11:28pm

I am based in China and drink with both locals and expatriates, and there are simply some tastes that most Chinese have not had, and vice versa. I hope to put a post together about this soon and share the info here.

Cheers, Jim
grapewallofchina.com

PS. It also works among foreigners. I have given a wine made to Yunnan to various wine writers. What the British and Australian writer found to be "foxy", I find OK because as a North American it reminded me of Concord grapes a bit.

Comment by Arthur Przebinda on January 18, 2009 at 9:35am

Hi All

Welcome to those who joined recently. I'm glad to see this group grow.

I'd like to see us all start talking about communicating about wine.
When I created this group, I started a few discussions to get the ball rolling.
Please take a look at them and see if you can contribute:

http://www.openwineconsortium.org/group/winecommunicationproject/forum/topics/appearance-etc

http://www.openwineconsortium.org/group/winecommunicationproject/forum/topics/intensity-aromas

http://www.openwineconsortium.org/group/winecommunicationproject/forum/topics/intensity-flavors

http://www.openwineconsortium.org/group/winecommunicationproject/forum/topics/astrigency-of-tannins

http://www.openwineconsortium.org/group/winecommunicationproject/forum/topics/finish-1

Comment by michaelonwine on January 3, 2009 at 3:02am

Thanks for that Arthur, I have a better understanding now of what you are trying to do. I'll be interested to hear how it progresses. Have a good trip!

Comment by Arthur Przebinda on January 2, 2009 at 10:51pm

Michael

I am interesting in bridging the gaps in the experience of wine without taking out the personal nature of it. It's not a matter of making or forcing people to conform to one view. Rather, it's a way of getting a meaningful touch point for these terms that tend to seem pretty concrete but when one thinks about them, they are varied with personal experience. So if I always say that an intense aroma is one I can detect with the glass at the level of my chin and no closer, and a light aroma is one I can detect by sticking my nose all the way into the glass and inhaling deeply, and I use that approach every time, my readers (though may not have my acuity) will have a better idea of what kind of intensity I am talking about.

In the second part of your first section you talk about tastes. This is talking about preferences. The approach I am trying to develop has nothing to do with preference. The purpose of this is to provide, again, a reliable way of commuincating the wine's character without interjecting my preferences. This way, nobody has to "calibrate their palates" and the person describing the wine is not "dictating" preference or taste.
One of the things I am working with is sweetness and "sourness" in wine. As you know, differing proportions of acidity and RS do much to the final sense of how dry, acidic or sweet the wine tastes. So does the the food one is having with wine.
My idea came about as a consequence of some bad pairings of food and wine. I picked some white wines that I thought would stand up to the vinegar in a salad dressing my wife was using. On their own, the wines seemed to have good acidity but when I drank them with the salad they seemed flat, hollow and totally lacking backbone.
So the idea I had was to try wines with or after eating (or drinking) some something that was either sour or sweet and seeing if the perception of the wine changed and if I could identify things that did not affect the perception of the sourness or sweetness of a wine would also be informative. Being able to do this consistently and reproducibly with everyday foodstuff would allow me to better tell people how acidic or how sweet a wine is without terms like "racy", "nervy" or "steely". I am still working on this. I have also been toying with some similar ideas to better "quantify" astringency.
That's it in a coconut shell. I have to pack for a trip but look forward to continuing this discussion.

Comment by michaelonwine on January 2, 2009 at 7:45pm

Hi Arthur,
Thanks for your replies and for the considered nature of your response. However, what you articulate: "What is "light" or "pronounced" aromatic intensity? There are better ways to define what an intense or light aroma is. The low to high categorization of sweetness, acidity and astringency is also wanting. Insofar that one person's balanced wine may be another's cloying plonk or another's "unpleasantly sour" - Is this really a problem or is it just a function of the fact that the evaluation of wine is a personal thing and therefore very subjective? And isn't that what makes wine fantastic? We can each have our preferences and our favourite wines. I have several wine-loving friends and I derive lots of happiness from our discussions about what we like - invariably we have different tastes. A wine I think is perfect might be considered less than so by my friends.
In the laboratory we can analyse for free and bound sulphurs, residual sugars, total and volatile acidity, spectro the colour and the total phenolics and lots more, and make judgements accordingly, but this does not rule out the fact that as consumers, we have our own personal opinions, interpretations and preferences.
If we were to assume that, by some scientific or other means, we could eliminate this personal preference approach so as (to quote you again) "not rely on the taster's determination of what is sour or sweet etc, but use some other touchstone-based approach", the logic is that we could determine the best reds, whites, blushes and sparklers without involving the taste/taster/consumer? This would possibly be a marketers dream, as winemakers the world over would have the formula for the best red, the best white etc. But surely it is all about taste and the individual preferences of the consumer?
I am nevertheless interested in your ideas which you say are not'quite ready for prime time', I would like to hear more about them, am willing to make constructive comment.....

Comment by Arthur Przebinda on January 2, 2009 at 11:05am

I think the WSET tasting sheet - while commendable for its systematic approach - is even more vague. What is "light" or "pronounced" aromatic intensity? There are better ways to define what an intense or light aroma is. The low to high categorization of sweetness, acidity and astringency is also wanting. Insofar that one person's balanced wine may be another's cloying plonk or another's "unpleasantly sour", we should have a system that does not rely on the taster's determination of what is sour or sweet etc, but use some other touchstone-based approach.
I have been toying with some concepts that are not quite ready for prime time but could use some broader testing.

Comment by Arthur Przebinda on January 2, 2009 at 10:59am

Additionally, I think that while documents like this: http://www.winepros.com.au/pdf/mouthfeel.pdf
are a good start (especially in describing the tactile character of mouthfeel/astringency), I think their acidity/sourness descriptors are not as good.

Comment by Arthur Przebinda on January 2, 2009 at 10:54am

Yes, Michael

And it seems that there is not always agreement.

Comment by michaelonwine on January 2, 2009 at 10:23am

Hi,
New person here. In terms of finding a set of 'universal descriptors' for the appearance, aroma, taste and length of finish of wine, I assume you have looked at the Systematic Approach as proposed by the WSET? and at other resources/aids such as colour and aroma wheels ?
MichaelOnWine

Comment by Max Morales on December 27, 2008 at 6:21pm

Greetings from Chile!

I have developed several wine projects in Argentina and Chile and I think we have helped to create a new nich of wine consumers that are not winelovers and are looking for an adventure rather than a wine tour ...while they do trekking, kayaking or arqueology....they can try a wine ....so....we have found out new words, new concepts and new wine consumption tendencies ...

Max Morales
CEO Andes Wines.com

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